gorgias-第13章

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licles；　and　let　no　modesty　be：　found　to　come　in　the　way；　do　the　many　think；　or　do　they　not　think　thus？…I　must　beg　of　you　to　answer；　in　order　that　if　you　agree　with　me　I　may　fortify　myself　by　the　assent　of　so　competent　an　authority。　　　Cal。　Yes；　the　opinion　of　the　many　is　what　you　say。　　　Soc。　Then　not　only　custom　but　nature　also　affirms　that　to　do　is　more　disgraceful　than　to　suffer　injustice；　and　that　justice　is　equality；　so　that　you　seem　to　have　been　wrong　in　your　former　assertion；　when　accusing　me　you　said　that　nature　and　custom　are　opposed；　and　that　I；　knowing　this；　was　dishonestly　playing　between　them；　appealing　to　custom　when　the　argument　is　about　nature；　and　to　nature　when　the　argument　is　about　custom？　　　Cal。　This　man　will　never　cease　talking　nonsense。　At　your　age；　Socrates；　are　you　not　ashamed　to　be　catching　at　words　and　chuckling　over　some　verbal　slip？　do　you　not　see…have　I　not　told　you　already；　that　by　superior　I　mean　better：　do　you　imagine　me　to　say；　that　if　a　rabble　of　slaves　and　nondescripts；　who　are　of　no　use　except　perhaps　for　their　physical　strength；　get　together　their　ipsissima　verba　are　laws？　　　Soc。　Ho！　my　philosopher；　is　that　your　line？　　　Cal。　Certainly。　　　Soc。　I　was　thinking；　Callicles；　that　something　of　the　kind　must　have　been　in　your　mind；　and　that　is　why　I　repeated　the　question…What　is　the　superior？　I　wanted　to　know　clearly　what　you　meant；　for　you　surely　do　not　think　that　two　men　are　better　than　one；　or　that　your　slaves　are　better　than　you　because　they　are　stronger？　Then　please　to　begin　again；　and　tell　me　who　the　better　are；　if　they　are　not　the　stronger；　and　I　will　ask　you；　great　Sir；　to　be　a　little　milder　in　your　instructions；　or　I　shall　have　to　run　away　from　you。　　　Cal。　You　are　ironical。　　　Soc。　No；　by　the　hero　Zethus；　Callicles；　by　whose　aid　you　were　just　now　saying　many　ironical　things　against　me；　I　am　not：…tell　me；　then；　whom　you　mean；　by　the　better？　　　Cal。　I　mean　the　more　excellent。　　　Soc。　Do　you　not　see　that　you　are　yourself　using　words　which　have　no　meaning　and　that　you　are　explaining　nothing？…will　you　tell　me　whether　you　mean　by　the　better　and　superior　the　wiser；　or　if　not；　whom？　　　Cal。　Most　assuredly；　I　do　mean　the　wiser。　　　Soc。　Then　according　to　you；　one　wise　man　may　often　be　superior　to　ten　thousand　fools；　and　he　ought　them；　and　they　ought　to　be　his　subjects；　and　he　ought　to　have　more　than　they　should。　This　is　what　I　believe　that　you　mean　（and　you　must　not　suppose　that　I　am　word…catching）；　if　you　allow　that　the　one　is　superior　to　the　ten　thousand？　　　Cal。　Yes；　that　is　what　I　mean；　and　that　is　what　I　conceive　to　be　natural　justice…that　the　better　and　wiser　should　rule　have　more　than　the　inferior。　　　Soc。　Stop　there；　and　let　me　ask　you　what　you　would　say　in　this　case：　Let　us　suppose　that　we　are　all　together　as　we　are　now；　there　are　several　of　us；　and　we　have　a　large　common　store　of　meats　and　drinks；　and　there　are　all　sorts　of　persons　in　our　company　having　various　degrees　of　strength　and　weakness；　and　one　of　us；　being　physician；　is　wiser　in　the　matter　of　food　than　all　the　rest；　and　he　is　probably　stronger　than　some　and　not　so　strong　as　others　of　us…will　he　not；　being　wiser；　be　also　better　than　we　are；　and　our　superior　in　this　matter　of　food？　　　Cal。　Certainly。　　　Soc。　Either；　then；　he　will　have　a　larger　share　of　the　meats　and　drinks；　because　he　is　better；　or　he　will　have　the　distribution　of　all　of　them　by　reason　of　his　authority；　but　he　will　not　expend　or　make　use　of　a　larger　share　of　them　on　his　own　person；　or　if　he　does；　he　will　be　punished…his　share　will　exceed　that　of　some；　and　be　less　than　that　of　others；　and　if　he　be　the　weakest　of　all；　he　being　the　best　of　all　will　have　the　smallest　share　of　all；　Callicles：…am　I　not　right；　my　friend？　　　Cal。　You　talk　about　meats　and　drinks　and　physicians　and　other　nonsense；　I　am　not　speaking　of　them。　　　Soc。　Well；　but　do　you　admit　that　the　wiser　is　the　better？　Answer　〃Yes〃　or　〃No。〃　　　Cal。　Yes。　　　Soc。　And　ought　not　the　better　to　have　a　larger　share？　　　Cal。　Not　of　meats　and　drinks。　　　Soc。　I　understand：　then；　perhaps；　of　coats　…the　skilfullest　weaver　ought　to　have　the　largest　coat；　and　the　greatest　number　of　them；　and　go　about　clothed　in　the　best　and　finest　of　them？　　　Cal。　Fudge　about　coats！　　　Soc。　Then　the　skilfullest　and　best　in　making　shoes　ought　to　have　the　advantage　in　shoes；　the　shoemaker；　clearly；　should　walk　about　in　the　largest　shoes；　and　have　the　greatest　number　of　them？　　　Cal。　Fudge　about　shoes！　What　nonsense　are　you　talking？　　　Soc。　Or；　if　this　is　not　your　meaning；　perhaps　you　would　say　that　the　wise　and　good　and　true　husbandman　should　actually　have　a　larger　share　of　seeds；　and　have　as　much　seed　as　possible　for　his　own　land？　　　Cal。　How　you　go　on；　always　talking　in　the　same　way；　Socrates！　　　Soc。　Yes；　Callicles；　and　also　about　the　same　things。　　　Cal。　Yes；　by　the　Gods；　you　are　literally　always　talking　of　cobblers　and　fullers　and　cooks　and　doctors；　as　if　this　had　to　do　with　our　argument。　　　Soc。　But　why　will　you　not　tell　me　in　what　a　man　must　be　superior　and　wiser　in　order　to　claim　a　larger　share；　will　you　neither　accept　a　suggestion；　nor　offer　one？　　　Cal。　I　have　already　told　you。　In　the　first　place；　I　mean　by　superiors　not　cobblers　or　cooks；　but　wise　politicians　who　understand　the　administration　of　a　state；　and　who　are　not　only　wise；　but　also　valiant　and　able　to　carry。　out　their　designs；　and　not　the　men　to　faint　from　want　of　soul。　　　Soc。　See　now；　most　excellent　Callicles；　how　different　my　charge　against　you　is　from　that　which　you　bring　against　me；　for　you　reproach　me　with　always　saying　the　same；　but　I　reproach　you　with　never　saying　the　same　about　the　same　things；　for　at　one　time　you　were　defining　the　better　and　the　superior　to　be　the　stronger；　then　again　as　the　wiser；　and　now　you　bring　forward　a　new　notion；　the　superior　and　the　better　are　now　declared　by　you　to　be　the　more　courageous：　I　wish；　my　good　friend；　that　you　would　tell　me　once　for　all；　whom　you　affirm　to　be　the　better　and　superior；　and　in　what　they　are　better？　　　Cal。　I　have　already　told　you　that　I　mean　those　who　are　wise　and　courageous　in　the　administration　of　a　state…they　ought　to　be　the　rulers　of　their　states；　and　justice　consists　in　their　having　more　than　their　subjects。　　　Soc。　But　whether　rulers　or　subjects　will　they　or　will　they　not　have　more　than　themselves；　my　friend？　　　Cal。　What　do　you　mean？　　　Soc。　I　mean　that　every　man　is　his　own　ruler；　but　perhaps　you　think　that　there　is　no　necessity　for　him　to　rule　himself；　he　is　only　required　to　rule　others？　　　Cal。　What　do　you　mean　by　his　〃ruling　over　himself〃？　　　Soc。　A　simple　thing　enough；　just　what　is　commonly　said；　that　a　man　should　be　temperate　and　master　of　himself；　and　ruler　of　his　own　pleasures　and　passions。　　　Cal。　What　innocence！　you　mean　those　fools…the　temperate？　　　Soc。　Certainly：…any　one　may　know　that　to　be　my　meaning。　　　Cal。　Quite　so；　Socrates；　and　they　are　really　fools；　for　how　can　a　man　be　happy　who　is　the　servant　of　anything？　On　the　contrary；　I　plainly　assert；　that　he　who　would　truly　live　ought　to　allow　his　desires　to　wax　to　the　uttermost；　and　not　to　chastise　them；　but　when　they　have　grown　to　their　greatest　he　should　have　courage　and　intelligence　to　minister　to　them　and　to　satisfy　all　his　longings。　And　this　I　affirm　to　be　natural　justice　and　nobility。　To　this　however　the　many　cannot　attain；　and　they　blame　the　strong　man　because　they　are　ashamed　of　their　own　weakness；　which　they　desire　to　conceal；　and　hence　they　say　that　intemperance　is　base。　As　I　have　remarked　already；　they　enslave　the　nobler　natures；　and　being　unable　to　satisfy　their　pleasures；　they　praise　temperance　and　justice　out　of　their　own　cowardice。　For　if　a　man　had　been　originally　the　son　of　a　king；　or　had　a　nature　capable　of　acquiring　an　empire　or　a　tyranny　or　sovereignty；　what　could　be　more　truly　base　or　evil　than　temperanceto　a　man　like　him；　I　say；　who　might　freely　be　enjoying　every　good；　and　has　no　one　to　stand　in　his　way；　and　yet　has　admitted　custom　and　reason　and　the　opinion　of　other　men　to　be　lords　over　him？…must　not　he　be　in　a　miserable　plight　whom　the　reputation　of　justice　and　temperance　hinders　from　giving　more　to　his　friends　than　to　his　enemies；　even　though　he　be　a　ruler　in　his　city？　Nay；　Socrates；　for　you　profess　to　be　a　votary　of　the　truth；　and　the　truth　is　this：…that　luxury　and